Tina
Brown, who recently started a weekly column
for The Times of London, is one of the most
celebrated journalists in the world. Barely
out of Oxford University, she was appointed
to edit London's Tatler, then moved to the
United States to run Vanity Fair, The New
Yorker, and Talk. Brown, the mother of two
young children, spoke with Earthtimes in
New York. Excerpts from the interview:
Why
did you decide to do write a column now?
I really wanted just to be able to use my own
voice after editing magazines for the last 20 years,
I've always been in the business of suggesting
cultural coverage to other writers, bringing a
point of view to their role in a magazine. But
to be actually able to do a column--where I can
just bring my point of view as a voice --is very
liberating for me. The Times is a great vehicle,
really, because it has a big audience. But it's
also a smart audience. And it's very hard to get
both those things. And you know, they also appreciate
a voice at The Times. They allow columnists to
be themselves.
Will your column be a fairly free-flowing ride?
It's fairly free-flowing. I will just simply write
as it moves me. I may be writing about a book or
a movie or a person, places where I've been or
something I've done. Or politics. It's going to
what's on my mind at the moment.
But even as an editor you kept your hand in writing,
didn't you?
I did. I was doing
the diary thing in "Talk," which,
you know, I enjoyed doing enormously--that was
for me a great transition into getting my own writing
voice back. I honestly just wanted to have fun
for myself--I felt I had a lot to say, and I realized
that I missed having a magazine as a place to express
my ideas--about the culture and the the power game
and about all the things that were my beat beat,
as a magazine editor. The Times column is a place
for me to unload those perceptions.
Having been an editor for as long as you have,
what kind of special discipline do you now bring
to your own writing?
I think I've got much higher standards than I
had. Before I was an editor, I always was something
of an agonizer as a writer. Like a lot of writers,
I write and rewrite-- I don't find it easy. But
at the same time, I feel more aware of what isn't
going to work. I feel more aware of pitfalls to
try to avoid. I feel also more aware about who
I'm writing about and how it might go across. I
think you're much more aware of all of those things
when you've been an editor.
You used the word "fun" earlier.
One gets a feeling, however, that the element
of fun
seems to be missing in a lot of high-powered journalism.
What
would you say are some of the essential ingredients
of
getting "fun" back in the business?
I think the trouble is that fun has often been
confused with a sort of irresponsibility or a sort
of trashiness. I'm trying in the column to be entertaining
without being mean. Sometimes, obviously, I can
be very sharp. And I think about that before I
take aim. Of course I have been sharp on a few
occasions in the column. I think that it's important
to make something as entertaining as you can while
having integrity. There's a strange snobbery about
that, it seems, in the serious publications here.
It's almost as if, in America, the mixture of high
and low has still not really been integrated in
quite the same way that it has in Europe. The London
Times can have material in it that the New York
Times would not have--and nobody feels threatened
by that.
How would you place your position as far as social
and environmental issues go?
I'm not somebody
who takes formal positions about issues. The
positions that I take tend to be driven
by how I'm responding to what I'm seeing and hearing.
I'm not someone who says, "But I am this.
Therefore, everything I say will fit in this niche
or this particular portmanteau of opinions." I
think that as an editor I was fairly free of political
bias. I simply regarded a story as interesting
intrinsically or not as opposed to: did it serve
some kind of an agenda? But I do get aggravated
by what I see as the lack of intelligent dissent
in the American media at the moment.
How so?
It seems that we
have two kinds of media really. One is just simply
the kind of "on the one
hand, on the other," strenuously masquerading
as impartial while actually leaving out a whole
lot of things might make the piece fairer. Or else,
it's yelling, yellow writing or TV television,
where a discussion show is not really a discussion
shows at all. And I do miss smart discussions in
places that have influence. It seems to me that
so much of the TV debate is just not real debate
at all. It's just people taking up ascribed positions.
This guy is a liberal. This guy is a bigot. Now
we'll sit and yell at each other for an hour. And
I don't find it particularly enlightening.
There are those who would argue that this kind
of media behavior takes its cues from the political
culture. And therefore, is politics something you
would be also taking a look at yourself?
Yes. I mean, I'm interested. I am actually writing
more about politics. I'm interested in it more
than I used to be, I would say. But then it seems
to me that there isn't a great deal of it, except
for, perhaps, Frank Rich [of the New York Times],
who takes a more cultural view of politics. Most
political writing tends to be straight political
Hill coverage. Whereas I think that there's a lot
to be said in interpreting some of the stuff we're
seeing in a slightly wider context.
Do you feel that the magazine culture has now
gone beyond reprieve in terms of catering to the
lowest common denominator?
Well, it's very demoralizing--that there was such
a sense that to even try to do something deep or
serious is not worth the effort because no one's
going to read it. And I actually think that that's
not true. And I know that at The New Yorker, we
put on 250,000 sales, not by being more frivolous,
but simply by taking a fresher approach to the
serious issues of the day. And I think it's a huge
challenge for us to do that and very, very hard
to do. I mean, at Talk, it was very demoralizing
at times to have so much good journalism that I
could and wanted to publish and, at the same time
feel the pressure to put it into a kind of celebrity-packaged
thing to make the newstand sales that the business
plan needed.
What about the fixation on celebrity in magazines
these days?
The whole celebrity packaging becomes very tiresome,
after a while. And yet at the same time, in trying
to achieve high circulation numbers. nobody believes
there's another way to get it. The trouble is that
the alternative of the slow build takes a lot of
patience. And the trouble is that a lot of patience
takes a lot of money. So, nobody really wants to
spend the kind of money that it takes to build
up an audience that's really, a serious reading
audience. They want the numbers much quicker than
that, and the only way to get that, they feel,
is by having the kind of celebrity approach to
it. Of course,the celebrity approach is fun. I've
done it, and I love it, and I loved Vanity Fair.
It was great. But I would like to feel that that's
the only kind of journalism, and it's certainly
not the only kind of journalism that I'd want to
do.
Do you feel that there's been enough of a shakeout
in the magazine world--that what we are seeing
today is essentially what we'll see five years
down the road?
Yeah. I do. I mean, I do think, actually, that
although Web magazines have failed, I do actually
think that the Internet has taken a lot of readers
away from magazines. I think that people do browse
the Web a lot, and that's time that might have
been spent browsing magazines. I mean, they'd rather
sit in front of their computers, and surf around
the Web and pick up stuff and read it in a magpie
sort of way. It's more bothersome to go out to
the newsstand and buy a magazine or incur the cost
of subscribing to one. So, I think that has impacted
on reading habits even though there is no businesss
model yet that has worked for a really successful
on-line magazine. I think that there will be still
more of a shake out of magazines. A lot of borderline
magazines are going to go down. More of them.
What would you say to those who might still be
in college or in high school who wish to pursue
a journalistic career?
I think for a young journalist, it's better to
write for the Web at the moment than it is for
print. I think that a voice can be developed there,
which is really very good. I think the important
thing is to not be following the pack in terms
of opinions and subject matter. Nothing is better
for a young journalist than to go and write about
something that other people don't know about. If
you can afford to send yourself to some foreign
part, I still think that's by far the best way
to break in as a real reporter, by actually having
a story to tell that someone hasn't heard. I think
there's too much snide, attitude-y non-reporting.
I love to run smart essays and commentary But it
doesn't replace the other kind of reporting. And
in fact, the best kind of commentary is based on
reporting. A thumbsucker is not enough in this
competitive world. It's important to base it on
something that your eyes have seen. It makes it
much fresher.
Can journalism be taught? Or is it a skill to
be acquired by experience?
I tend to feel that the best way to acquire journalistic
skill is by going out and telling stories and writing.
I don't know where the journalism courses are at
these days. I haven't done one. So, I don't really
know. I know it's a major thing in this country
to go to journalism school. And I'm sure that there
are ways to learn and helpful things you can find
in a journalism course. I tend to think the best
journalism course is still to become a local reporter,
writing about fires and trials and everything that
is on offer to give the versatility and the learning
of how to make anything interesting. I mean, if
you've been made to write stories about the weather,
for God's sakes, then you're going to have to find
a way to make it interesting, and I think that's
very, very good training. I think that's better
training. And I think the pressure of a deadline
is enormously important. I found a deadline makes
you write in ways that you didn't know you could,
because of the sheer desperation to fill the space.
Any real deadline is going to be more useful to
you than any journalistic course.
Your writing and editing has been remarkably cross-cultural,
in the sense it's not just for Britain, not just
appreciated in America, but, really, by readers
almost everywhere. What is it about you that makes
you transcultural?
I am a Brit living in America, and I think having
that kind of foreign perspective is always useful.
I've come from different worlds. I was raised in
a family where my father was in the film business,
which is a society of people who are very accessible
to anything. I mean, film people, like journalists,
tend to travel in odd circles. Wherever the movie's
made is wherever they're, whoever they're talking
to, if you know what I mean. So, that was a help,
I think. I think that my general European/New York
sort of media background has enabled me to see
things in different ways. I'm enjoying writing
for a British audience about America and yet, now
I'm aware, suddenly that it's being relayed back
here. That's actually made me pause a bit. You
have to know who you're writing for. I'm just going
to write it for myself at this point, and hoping
that people like it.
What do you hate about coverage foreign affairs?
The worst thing is this pack attitude. It's just
how stale so much foreign reporting is, rewritten
stuff coming out of wires and already reported
material. One of the things I find most ridiculous
about foreign reporting very often is that all
the foreign journalists stay together and all hang
out at the bar together and all write something
similar. It's nutty. The best ones get out, of
course. But there is an awful lot of hanging out
in the bar with your own colleagues. And although,
of course, that must be a comforting thing to do
when you're in some scary, benighted place, it's
become counterproductive to getting anything real
or fresh.
Would encourage your own kids to get into journalism?
Well, I suppose,
yes, yes. journalism is the most exciting profession
in the world. And I think that
it always be. One of the things that 9/11 did was
to excite journalists enormously about why they're
in the business in the first place. Because journalists
have been very tired recently by the constant pressure
for numbers and money and, you know, being commercial
and being told constantly that serious stories
won't sell and all of this stuff. It's very demoralizing,
for a talented, idealistic journalist, who set
out to be a journalist to expose the demons and
right some of the wrongs in the world, to find
that people keep telling you there isn't "a
market" for that kind of thing anymore. After
that whole period after 9/11 journalists were allowed
to do what they wanted to and do best, and were
allowed to show they could do it. And they wrote
wonderful stuff. I saw people rising to the occasion
and showing they can still work in that way and
want to work in that way.
At this stage of your career and your life, what
do you still use to get intellectual nourishment?
Reading history.
That's what I'm really big on. I love reading
American history, which I never
used to read much of. But I do now. European history
was a passion when I was at Oxford, and I sort
of got out of reading it. It was always, "I
need to read the current novel," or something
I was extracting for The New Yorker; the text was
so enormous that it was usually something I might
publish or somebody's manuscript. But it was not
work--reading, but not nourishing reading. So,
I'm very happy to get back to that.
At this stage of your life, is there something
that surprises you about contemporary editors?
When you're written about yourself, your consciousness
gets raised a little bit about media and about
what kind of journalist you want to be. I'm always
startled at how journalists so often copy one another.
That's my major beef, I suppose, and I always tried
to be the kind of editor who doesn't just commission
a story from the same angle as everybody else.
Right now editors don't seem to be looking for
material that's exciting, and I think it's not
that they're not good editors--because there are
plenty of talented editors around. I think it's
a constant pressure to secure the numbers, the
demographics. All these things pummel on editors
and take away all their juice. So, then, in the
end, they're not even looking for the material
that they used to be looking for.
Because of your own celebrity, your skills and
your own prominence, you taken a lot of beating
in public. How do you deal with this kind of criticism,
some of which is not well-motivated and certainly
not kind. I can understand why I might be a target.
I am kind of used to that now. It's funny how you
do become inured to it. Really. I'm far more surprised
if it's friendly.
And that would embolden you to stay on in journalism?
Oh, yeah, I love journalism. I always will.
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